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~Princess Luna

X
Slops
Contributor
5 years ago
2011 derp derpy_hooves dont_transfer duplicate equine female generation_4 inspired_by_proper_art moe painting parody pegasus pony solo wings rating:Safe score:3 user:Ratte

Cheating in a game and the opponent letting you get away with it, is still cheating.

No rules in the Ironpony competition forbidding the use of wings.

The cheating in the Running of the Leaves may have been started by RD, but AJ had no compulsions about joining in and accused RD of cheating long before then. And even in that case, its STILL CHEATING!
This just makes AJ judgemental, a cheater and a hypocrite.

I'm assuming AJ didn't tell Cherry Jubilee, since she didn't tell anyone else, due to not wanting to be followed. Telling Jubilee would not only be less of a breach of trust than lying to her friends, but also actively counter productive. In other words, stupid.
And this doesn't change the fact that she ran out on her promise to her friends.

And saying you are going to do something you have no intention of doing, like say, when AJ promised to tell them at breakfirst and then skipping town, is the definition of lying.
And even when her friends caught her redhoofed in that lie, she didn't fezz up the truth, she ran off, resulting in an extended chase sequence.
She was pretty much doing everything in her power not to tell the truth.

And then there's the time she lied about needing help on the farm (lying to herself and to others...).
Or when she lied about being hungry at the reception held for Celestia in Bird in the Hoof.
Or in Suited for Success, when she tried to give the same false impression of liking the first dress Rarity made for her.
Or when she lies about being late for something back home in order to get out of a Sleepover, or any of the countless other small white lies from that episode.
And all those instances without mentioning discorded AJ or the one time she's famous for lying...
Really, she has only once been shown to have a real problem with lying and that was in Party for one, when all the other ponies has the same problem and where just as bad at it.

As for Ponyville's celebrations in AJ's honour, she arrived late for one and could barely even be arsed to say thank you for the whole thing, and she skipped town after the other. Dick moves on both counts when the whole town gets together to be nice to her...
Hence, undeserving.


Slops said:
Cheating in a game and the opponent letting you get away with it, is still cheating.

No rules in the Ironpony competition forbidding the use of wings.

The cheating in the Running of the Leaves may have been started by RD, but AJ had no compulsions about joining in and accused RD of cheating long before then. And even in that case, its STILL CHEATING!
This just makes AJ judgemental, a cheater and a hypocrite.

I'm assuming AJ didn't tell Cherry Jubilee, since she didn't tell anyone else, due to not wanting to be followed. Telling Jubilee would not only be less of a breach of trust than lying to her friends, but also actively counter productive. In other words, stupid.
And this doesn't change the fact that she ran out on her promise to her friends.

And saying you are going to do something you have no intention of doing, like say, when AJ promised to tell them at breakfirst and then skipping town, is the definition of lying.
And even when her friends caught her redhoofed in that lie, she didn't fezz up the truth, she ran off, resulting in an extended chase sequence.
She was pretty much doing everything in her power not to tell the truth.

And then there's the time she lied about needing help on the farm (lying to herself and to others...).
Or when she lied about being hungry at the reception held for Celestia in Bird in the Hoof.
Or in Suited for Success, when she tried to give the same false impression of liking the first dress Rarity made for her.
Or when she lies about being late for something back home in order to get out of a Sleepover, or any of the countless other small white lies from that episode.
And all those instances without mentioning discorded AJ or the one time she's famous for lying...
Really, she has only once been shown to have a real problem with lying and that was in Party for one, when all the other ponies has the same problem and where just as bad at it.

As for Ponyville's celebrations in AJ's honour, she arrived late for one and could barely even be arsed to say thank you for the whole thing, and she skipped town after the other. Dick moves on both counts when the whole town gets together to be nice to her...
Hence, undeserving.

Yeah, out of context everything you said makes her sound bad, but lets address these in order, in context.

Oh, slops, prepare to have your arguments completely and utterly destroyed, for I shall show you no mercy.

Firstly, Their were no set rules to the contest in SSCM6K, it was simply "Who produced the most barrels." If ti WAS cheating, the judge would not have allowed it, the flim flam brothers gave their own OK, therefor it was perfectly legal. Had the judge said no, or the brothers said no, THEN it would have been cheating.

Secondly, Their were no rules in the iron pony competition at all, but it was assumed by AJ That it would be earthpony style, no wings, no magic.

In the ROTL, AJ tripped on a rock and accused Rainbow of cheating, until she realized oh wait, thats not right, with a little help from Twilight, Rainbow had the SAME DAMN EVENT HAPPEN TO HER, twilight TRIED to explain it, but went right ahead and cheated anyways, after which AJ took it as fair game. The two were more in competition with EACH OTHER then in the spirit of the running of the leaves. This does not make her a hypocrite as she didn't start cheating until after rainbow dash did.

In Episode 15, the last round up, AJ was sent off to win a big fancy shmancy rodeo and lost, ashamed, she didn't return home because she PROMISED SHE WOULD GIVE THEM THE PRIZE MONEY TO FIX THE COURT HOUSE. Keep in mind, thats a very important plot point, being ashamed she didnt come home, instead she went to WORK FOR ANOTHER PERSON to EARN The money to send back to them. It was not a lie, nor a direct truth, as she was to ashamed to TELL them the truth. She was still, however, trying to keep her promise.

Again, the whole "Tell them at breakfast" wasn't a lie, nor a whole truth. She WOULD have told them at breakfast, but, she didn't GO to breakfast, making the whole point moot. AJ never said she would "Attend" breakfast, just that she would tell them there. And once more it comes down to she was too ashamed to tell them.

Lying about needing help on the farm is also a buncha bull shit. She just said she didn't WANT help, and refused to accept their help. Because she was being stuborn, It wasn't a case of lying as everyone KNEW she needed help, but she was too stubborn to accept it.

I dont remember much about bird in the hoof

In Suited for Success it was a small white lie in order to keep her from hurting the feelings of her friends, she didn't nessecarily DISLIKE The outfit, it was more of a case of it wasn't what she was expecting.

The small numerous "White lies" She tells ,are often so minor and insignificant they wont actually hurt anypony, or are often done in the best interest of others. Just because your the "Spirit" of something, doesnt mean your going to do it all the time. Even the most honest man in the world will lie on occasion to protect others, or if their shamed/whatnot

The reason no one mentions discorded aj is, well, a case of no fucking shit. Yeah shes gonna lie a helluva lot more. Thats just obvious.

Party of one, also, again, lying for the sake of keeping it a surprise for pinkie to make the experience all the more special, so lying for a good reason and doing really badly at it.

As for the celebrations, lets address those in order. Since you seem to LOVE to be a dick.

Firstly, the former celebration in AJ's honor was done in season 1 episode 4, shortly after AJ had been working her flank off in the farms, and was clearly exhausted FROM working. This is made VERY Clear throughout the episode, she was too tired to really talk, and her vision was even shown to be extremely wobbly. This is on part of her being stubborn and refusing to accept help for the responsibilities of SAA, and has NOTHING to do with being a Dick.

Secondly, the second celebration was a going away party, and good luck party to canterlot for the Rodeo, which she showed up to and said thank you for and everything. How was it "Skipping town" When it was a bloody SEND OFF. Isn't that the POINT of a going away party? In no way shape or form was she being rude or callous in EITHER of the parties thrown for her.

If you're going to try and use scenes out of context, be prepared to have your arguments destroyed when they are used within context. And be prepared to be made to look like an utter idiot for using them out of context to try and sway people to your side.


oh snap lol

Werewolf
Contributor
5 years ago
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TerraFirma said:
words

I think I love you. ♥_♥

Slops
Contributor
5 years ago
2011 derp derpy_hooves dont_transfer duplicate equine female generation_4 inspired_by_proper_art moe painting parody pegasus pony solo wings rating:Safe score:3 user:Ratte

I'm quite well aware that she had reasons for lying, but having an excuse to do so is not the same as not lying, which is what this is about...

This also goes for when she was cheating in the Running of the Leaves race. RD may have started it, but AJ was still perfectly willing to cheat. And it wasn't just a race between AJ and RD. Half of Ponyville was running after all.
Just because she has an excuse doesn't mean she's not breaking the rules. And complaining about RD's cheating and then immediately cheating herself, pretty much follows the definition of "hypocrisy".

Same goes for the Cider competition. Just because the brothers allowed them to cheat by adding friends to their team in the middle of the competition doesn't mean they weren't cheating. Only that it was tolerated.
To make a comparison, lets use a Basketball match. When two teams are playing against each other and one team wants to add 5 extra players to their players on the court, is cheating. Even if the judge and other team allow it, it is still cheating.

Same in Applebucking Season. Just because AJ had a reason to blow the celebration in her honour (that she was tired) doesn't mean she wasn't blowing them off.
When someone throws you a party it's only polite to stay for at least some of the party. AJ didn't stick around for all the ponies who wanted to make speeches for her or any of the celebration. She just showed up, mumbled a poor excuse for a thanks and immediately left.
She may have had a reason for her behaviour, but it's still not a very nice thing to do to all the ponies who put in work to prepare the celebration.
Also with her lies in that episode. Just because she was lying to herself about needing help, doesn't mean she wasn't lying.
Being too stubborn to admit the truth (that she needs help), doesn't change the truth (she needs help). The aesop of that episode was her learning to be honest with herself about her limitations after all.
And for the record, she does state that she doesn't need help.
Check the transcript yourself.
*link* read from "Applejack, we need to talk"
She also lies about knowing the tree she was kicking being dead in that same conversation.

And in Last Roundup, while she was supposed to leave the town, she was also supposed to return after the competition, not move to another city to work with barely a word send back home. Now who was ignoring the context again?
And when she said she would explain everything the next morning, with no intention what so ever to explain anything the next morning since she would be leaving the city, she was lying, since unlike what she promised, she wasn't planning on explaining anything the next morning, she was planing to leave town.

And keep in mind, she is supposed to be the most Honest of the Ponies. She's not supposed to be "just technically honest" but to be the exemplar of honesty. She's supposed to embody the spirit of honesty, not just "honest when it's convenient". Context excusing the lie doesn't make the lie any more true.
The problem isn't that she lies once in a while, it's that she's less honest than half of the other mane characters.
I'm not saying she doesn't have character depth. It's exactly because she has depth that she isn't perfectly honest all the time. I'm saying I don't like her because she's an intentionally ignorant idiot and a hypocrite on top of being a stereotype I find annoying.


Slops said:
Words

Lets start out with something you don't quiet seem to understand here, first and foremost.

Cheating refers to immoral way of achieving a goal.It is generally used for the breaking of rules to gain advantage in a competitive situation. The rules infringed may be explicit, or they may be from an unwritten code of conduct based on morality, ethics or custom, making the identification of cheating a subjective process.

cheat
   [cheet] Show IPA
verb (used with object)
1.
to defraud; swindle: He cheated her out of her inheritance.
2.
to deceive; influence by fraud: He cheated us into believing him a hero.
3.
to elude; deprive of something expected: He cheated the law by suicide.
verb (used without object)
4.
to practice fraud or deceit: She cheats without regrets.
5.
to violate rules or regulations: He cheats at cards.
6.
to take an examination or test in a dishonest way, as by improper access to answers.
7.
Informal . to be sexually unfaithful (often followed by on ): Her husband knew she had been cheating all along. He cheated on his wife.

Those are the definition of cheating. While it may occur in the ROTL, which as I stated DID have others, but they saw it PURELY AS BETWEEN THEMSELVES.

As for the cider match, there was no 100% set in stone rules, nor was it morally wrong, or any other form of wrong. It was allowed, there for it was in no way, shape or form, or by any definition excluding that one you've got in your own brain that no one else seems to get, cheating.

Are you seriously going to bitch about just minor things? "Oh..I knew that" Really? BOo fucking hoo get over it, so she lies a little here and there. Do you know how much it would SUCK to tell the truth all the time, every time? Extremely bad. Thats how much.

and in Last Roundup, while she was supposed to leave the town, she was also supposed to return after the competition, not move to another city to work with barely a word send back home. Now who was ignoring the context again?

"Applejack: Buuut, this here is the nicest send off anypony could ask for. Y'all have been cheering me on in every rodeo since I was a little little pony. So it seems only fittin' to use my winnings to fix up town hall. I promise to make Ponyville proud. "

That is a direct line from the transcript. If you can use them so can I. "I promise to make ponyville Proud" not. "I promise to come back to ponyville immediately after the radio, and give them my winnings"

Again; spirit of honest, not "Embodiment of honesty" Does applejack lie? Yes, is rarity greedy? Rainbow dash shrks her loyalties? Yes. Just because they embody something doesn't mean their obligated to be it 24/7. Oh boohoo applejack is lying or being sarcastic or baww baww baww. Shes not Ignorant, nor an Idiot just because she doesn't do things by YOUR standards. As for their money, have you ever RAN a farm? That shit is EXPENSIVE, equipment, repairs, seeds, not to mention they have to feed themselves. Theirs absolutely NO form of Income during winter, so thats an entire season they have with no income. Not to mention apples wont really grow in the spring, they'll start too, but they wont really start producing revenue again till summer.

and I wouldn't remotely say shes "Less honest then half the other main cast" because shes more honest then any of them save "maybe" fluttershy, whos too squishy to lie to anyoen without feeling like a roaring prick. Rarity, Twilight, Rainbow, and pinkie have all lied out their teeth quiet often. Albeit with pinkie you can never tell if its a Lie or not.

Theirs no real indication ANYWHERE that shes ignorant, or an idiot, you're just accusing her of being that because shes a southerner. And the "Dont you bring your fancy mathmatics line" was meant to be COMEDIC.

Applejack: I'm here. I'm here. [yawn] [sigh] Sorry I'm late--whoa--I was just... Did I get your tail? Miss Mayor. Thank you kindly for this here... award thingy. [yawn] [yawn] It's so bright and shiny and , heh, heh heh, I sure do look funny heh. Ooo-ooo.
Pinkie Pie: Woo-ooo.
Applejack: Ooo-ooo.
Twilight Sparkle: Okay. Well, thank you Applejack for saving us from that scary stampede, and always being there for everypony.
Applejack: [yawn] Yeah. I like helping the ponyfolks and [yawn] and stuff. [snore] Oh, uh, yeah. Uh, Thanks.
Twilight Sparkle: Was it just me, or did Applejack seem a little--
Rainbow Dash: Tired?
Fluttershy: Dizzy?
Rarity: Messy? Well, did you see her mane?
Pinkie Pie: She seemed fine to me. Woo! Woo!
Twilight Sparkle: Hmm.

also a transcript from episode 4, which clearly shows her beyond out of it, so much so that everyone else noticed.

Slops
Contributor
5 years ago
2011 derp derpy_hooves dont_transfer duplicate equine female generation_4 inspired_by_proper_art moe painting parody pegasus pony solo wings rating:Safe score:3 user:Ratte

I know what cheating means. Our disagreement seems to stem from a difference of interpretation of the episode.

When two teams compete for a goal, I consider it deceitful abuse of the rules to try and double the size of one team through rewording the letter of the agreed rules to allow the new and more vaguely worded rules to justify doubling one of the teams.
So since we are quoting dictionaries that support our points:

Google said:
cheat/CHēt/
Verb:
Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination: "she cheats at cards".

And that is because they twisted the original rules through vauge word twisting to get more participants for one team in the middle of the competition.
This is neither particularly good sportsmanship nor is twisting the rules to gain an advantage an honest way to win a competition that is supposed to be won through skill.
That the Flim Flam brothers either had enough sportsman spirit to allow it (since they where in the lead at that point), didn't want to make an argument in the middle of the competition about the details of the rules and let it pass or simply didn't notice what they where agreeing to, doesn't affect the fact that Apple Family had the rules changed to give them an advantage by changing the wording of the rules to allow them to double their team in the middle of the competition.

I am also quite well aware of the expenses incurred when running a farm as my Sister and her Husband are indeed farmers.
My observations is that they have so many goods that have either successful business ponies (like Filthy Rich) eager to use them as subcontractors, half of Ponyville regularly lining up to by their produce (Both with the Zap Apple Jam and Apple Cider) on top of what ever prize money AJ seems to bring in, yet they still struggle to make ends meet.
If they had trouble selling what they produce I could understand having financial trouble running the farm, but if they can barely make ends meet while selling most of what they produce, I have to question either their skill at running a business or at running the farm. And they have been shown to be competent farmers, that means they must be poor business people since even all the produce they make and sell cannot keep the farm in business. Particularly since several of their products seemingly have a considerable percentage of ponyville queuing to buy it and even more so when we consider that they a monopolies on these same products.
Most farms struggle due to competition driving prices of their produce down after all, not because they have so much demand for their produce they can practically set any price they want for it.

As for which pony is most honest. Fluttershy does indeed seem to lie a lot less, especially when she has Angle pushing her to be more assertive. Pinkie Pie isn't really deceitful and nearly any lie she makes is as part of a friendly joke rather than an attempt to deceive or shield others feelings. RD has a penchant for telling people the truth even when it's not what they want to hear and Twilight seems to be more concerned with the accuracy of her claims than misleading anypony. It is uncommon that any of these characters lie and RD seems to have a problem with being honest in her sportsmanship.
Really, AJ would have been better off as the Element of Loyalty, since her defining character traits seem to be always sticking with her friends and family and going to any length to help and support them.

I do not regard AJ as an wilfully ignorant idiot because she's a southerner. I regard her as an idiot because she has been shown to struggle with basic addition (even if it was played as a joke), has little understanding of common things in Equestria like Telekinesis (How Trixie matched AJ's rope trick through the use of the single most common feat of magic in Equestria), a complete inability to recognise her own limitations (from AppleTini trying to tackle Zecora's ear to planning on kicking apples at a dragon if it gets violent as a means of subduing it) and a lack of common knowledge (she doesn't even know what a mudmask was at the sleepover and such).
That she is a southerner has nothing to do with why I dislike her. It just opens the way for cracking jokes about some stereo types that overlap southerners with social groups that have a reputation (deserved or not) for among other things, being uneducated.
But it is her ignorance I dislike, not her accent.
It's not that I want AJ to be a scholar on all subjects like Twilight, but if show would at least show her putting an small effort into learning about something once in a while, like Rarity has been shown to do, I would find her less annoying.


but the point is applejack is stubborn and hard headed.. those are her flaws! You can't make everyone perfect.


Pinkie_Pie said:
but the point is applejack is stubborn and hard headed.. those are her flaws! You can't make everyone perfect.

Thank you. /comicbookguy


...Bloody hell, you two; I can't leave you alone for two days without having you clash hooves again.

I was going to write my thoughts, but forget about it. With how often you two get sidetracked into an almost completely irrelevant debate that deals more with specific characters and past episodes rather than the new episode (In case you need a refresher; WHY THIS TOPIC IS HERE), and also considering how rarely my thoughts are conversation-starting, I don't think I'll bother.

Slops
Contributor
5 years ago
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PsychoShy said:
I was going to write my thoughts, but forget about it. With how often you two get sidetracked into an almost completely irrelevant debate that deals more with specific characters and past episodes rather than the new episode (In case you need a refresher; WHY THIS TOPIC IS HERE), and also considering how rarely my thoughts are conversation-starting, I don't think I'll bother.

I've said my piece on AJ so you don't need to fear me bursting into any more rants. Not right away anyhow.
Though in my defence I would like to point out that most of the discussion was about several of the events in the latest episode and only using past examples to help illustrate our points.
But since that's not topical enough, how about this:

What did you think of the new song?
I rather enjoyed it.
It seems to be a reference to "(Ya got) Trouble" from The Music Man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qam1fbQmA_s
I also liked the reference many old cartoons in the dancing from the characters in the background throughout the song.

Werewolf
Contributor
5 years ago
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PsychoShy said:
...Bloody hell, you two; I can't leave you alone for two days without having you clash hooves again.

Hey, I stopped several posts ago. Also, this was an AJ episode and we were discussing AJ's honesty.

Slops said:
What did you think of the new song?
I rather enjoyed it.
It seems to be a reference to "(Ya got) Trouble" from The Music Man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qam1fbQmA_s

I found it hilarious.

Also, the Flim Flam Brothers kept switching names during the song.

Also, they were driving the Wonkamobile from the Gene Wilder film. That's awesome. I like these subtle references.


...Remind me that I can never play the Guilt Trip on you guys; you're too smart for that.
Before I go on, though, I suppose I should point out something no one seemed to notice: there's such a thing as being brutally honest, and I think Applejack's letter to the Princess captured that perfectly.

I didn't pay close attention to the song, but I suppose it was a pretty good song. Winter Wrap-Up is still probably my favorite, but it's definitely the best of its season (Although I suppose it doesn't have much competition).
As for the whole Music Man reference, I picked it up in an instant. Heck, that was pretty much the only accurate depiction of a con artist I've actually seen, and I picked up on Flim and Flam falling into that category before they even started singing.

Um, well, damn. I guess I didn't have a lot to say to begin with.

Werewolf
Contributor
5 years ago
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And a Dash episode!

  • So, this is interesting. Apparently there is no healing magic in this Sugarbowl World of magical ponies. We've seen the ponies use mundane medicinal methods in both this episode and A Bird in the Hoof, and in Secret of My Excess both doctors (pediatrician and vet) were earth ponies. Also, Dr Unicorn in this episode never used magic. This is rather curious.
  • Derring Do (Daring Do?) = recolored Indiana Dash. Also, loved that last trap. Crushing walls, spikes, snakes, spiders, and sand. Overkill much?
  • Holy crap I like this new villain. I was trying to figure out what the hay he was - a jackal? A cat? - when I realized he had a freakin' hand on the end of his tail. An ahuizotl? YES! For some reason I find this amazingly cool.
  • So there's a version of Battleship in Equestria, and it's Dash's favorite board game?
  • Worst hospital discharge ever. "You're fine, now get out."
  • I guess Dash favors ninjas over pirates. Though I'd think the rainbow tail wouldn't be the best idea for a stealth mission.
  • Insane dog-pony. Ponyville does seem to have its share of mental health issues.
  • Dash with a drinking glass stuck on her muzzle = comedy gold.
  • And Dash now has the second-best Friendship Letter.

No songs, no Derpy sighting (if there was I missed it), and no big fandom nods; but also no Dash being a total jerk or other ponies acting wildly out of character. All in all a solid, if unexceptional, episode.

Slops
Contributor
5 years ago
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  • Werewolf said:
    • Holy crap I like this new villain. I was trying to figure out what the hay he was - a jackal? A cat? - when I realized he had a freakin' hand on the end of his tail. An ahuizotl? YES! For some reason I find this amazingly cool.

    And another notch for the D&D Monstrous Manual collection.
    (Fiend Folio if you want to be technical about it, but it's a canon D&D monster nonetheless).
    http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Canon:Ahuizotl

    About bloody time too. Slice of life is nice every once in a while, but I'd rather seem some more monsters and villains for the Mane 6 to overcome and less "regular everyday crap". But that's just me.

    As for the last big trap. Where were all the fire spewing from the walls, boulders falling, lava, poisoned arrows and shark pits? That wasn't overkill. No decent "easily escapable deathtrap" should be without lasers. It's just not a proper "easily escapable deathtrap" without the lasers or buzzsaws or something.


    Slops said:
    And another notch for the D&D Monstrous Manual collection.
    (Fiend Folio if you want to be technical about it, but it's a canon D&D monster nonetheless).
    http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Canon:Ahuizotl

    I'll see your wiki and raise you a wiki:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahuizotl_%28creature%29
    The ahuizotl predates D&D by a few centuries.

    Slops
    Contributor
    5 years ago
    2011 derp derpy_hooves dont_transfer duplicate equine female generation_4 inspired_by_proper_art moe painting parody pegasus pony solo wings rating:Safe score:3 user:Ratte

    Cocoa_Bean said:
    I'll see your wiki and raise you a wiki:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahuizotl_%28creature%29
    The ahuizotl predates D&D by a few centuries.

    So does most of the "classic" D&D monsters. It's only a few of their monsters that where actually made for the game and not copied out of an old monster story from somewhere in the world.
    And seeing as Hasbro owns WotC, they also own the rights to D&D.

    Werewolf
    Contributor
    5 years ago
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    Slops said:
    As for the last big trap. Where were all the fire spewing from the walls, boulders falling, lava, poisoned arrows and shark pits? That wasn't overkill. No decent "easily escapable deathtrap" should be without lasers. It's just not a proper "easily escapable deathtrap" without the lasers or buzzsaws or something.

    Can't you ever agree with anything I say? Now you're being contrary just to be contrary.

    We got spinning axes of doom (there's your buzzsaws), flame pits, ceiling crocodiles, Ye Olde Scything Blade, (presumably poisoned) crossbow bolts, floor spikes, a collapsing room, wall spikes, spiders, snakes, sand, a floor tile puzzle, and the whole temple filling with lava.

    Lasers. Pfft. That last trap was worthy of Grimtooth.

    Slops
    Contributor
    5 years ago
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    Werewolf said:
    Lasers. Pfft. That last trap was worthy of Grimtooth.

    I was referring to the "easily escapable deathtrap" Daring Do was put in after she was caught, as per standard Evil Overlord Standards of Conduct §34 subsection 5.
    It had neither any variation of spinning blades (or other cutting implements) nor any Optically Focused Photonic Heating, Burning or Cutting Devises.
    IF Daring Do had been a unionised hero she could have sued him for considerable damages to her Public Image, due to having to escape from a substandard Deathtrap.

    Don't you know anything about deathtraps man?

    Werewolf
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    Slops said:
    I was referring to the "easily escapable deathtrap" Daring Do was put in after she was caught, as per standard Evil Overlord Standards of Conduct §34 subsection 5.
    It had neither any variation of spinning blades (or other cutting implements) nor any Optically Focused Photonic Heating, Burning or Cutting Devises.
    IF Daring Do had been a unionised hero she could have sued him for considerable damages to her Public Image, due to having to escape from a substandard Deathtrap.

    Don't you know anything about deathtraps man?

    You clearly missed footnote 5, which specifically states that "a series of not less than three (3) edged melee weapons propelled at a high velocity and rate of spin may be substituted for said Saw-Edged Circular Cutting Devices if form 28-J is filled out properly."

    Also, since when is Ye Scything Blade of Doom not an edged weapon?

    Also, I'd expect a student of Evil Overlordship to know that lasers can be replaced by sufficient quantities of lava and/or magma, should the local technology prove insufficient for a standard Death Laser.

    Finally, the extra credit for the Ceiling Crocodiles easily covers any credit lost for the lack of a Shark Tank or Snake Pit.


    Aaaaannnnnnd once again the Peanut Gallery gets side-tracked from the meat of the episode to gnaw at the bones. At least this time they took a trek into comedy country instead of dead-ending on the philosphical peninsula.


  • Werewolf said:
    • So, this is interesting. Apparently there is no healing magic in this Sugarbowl World of magical ponies. We've seen the ponies use mundane medicinal methods in both this episode and A Bird in the Hoof, and in Secret of My Excess both doctors (pediatrician and vet) were earth ponies. Also, Dr Unicorn in this episode never used magic. This is rather curious.

    I have a nit to pick. Not an important one. He does use magic...but it's only standard telekinesis.

  • Werewolf said:
    • Insane dog-pony. Ponyville does seem to have its share of mental health issues.

    You might say he was 'barking mad.'

    Werewolf
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    internetcatchphrase said:
    I have a nit to pick. Not an important one. He does use magic...but it's only standard telekinesis.

    Good catch. He does not, however, use magic in any medical fashion.

    You might say he was 'barking mad.'

    Slops
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    Werewolf said:
    Finally, the extra credit for the Ceiling Crocodiles easily covers any credit lost for the lack of a Shark Tank or Snake Pit.

    All of which while in the temple of doom, where all absent from the "Easily Escapable Deathtrap".
    It only had spiked walls closing in, quicksand, Spiders and Snakes. Clearly not up to code.
    §34 doesn't cover the design of trapped dungeons and/or abandoned ruins, that's §32.

    As a footnote, Ahuizotl had best hope PETA never catch on about that last trap as well, or they might just have some choice words for him about putting his dangerous critters inside the crushing room of doom, while it's crushing.


    Wow, guys; we're arguing about the "villain death trap code?" I was expecting something about character development, given how many times you guys posted, but really?

    Werewolf said:
    no big fandom nods;

    This is a bit of a small one, but I think one of those nurse ponies looked suspiciously similar to Screwball.

    Speaking of the nurse ponies, it looks like they all share the same cutie mark. This strikes me as a little odd, considering a cutie mark is supposed to differentiate ponies from one another--but then again, this is the first working establishment we've seen except for Sugarcube Corner, so this might not actually be so uncommon.
    Also, rather disappointed to not see Redheart.

    "Daring Do (Yeah, it's Daring, look at the book cover) and the Gryphon's Goblet..." if that's not a subtle nod to Gilda, I don't know what is.

    Slops
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    PsychoShy said:
    Speaking of the nurse ponies, it looks like they all share the same cutie mark. This strikes me as a little odd, considering a cutie mark is supposed to differentiate ponies from one another--but then again, this is the first working establishment we've seen except for Sugarcube Corner, so this might not actually be so uncommon.
    Also, rather disappointed to not see Redheart.

    Didn't all the servants at the Galla have one of the same two cutie marks (one was the sun the other was a star, IIRC).


    Can't say I recall that, Slops.
    ---
    A Valentine's Day episode; that shouldn't come as a surprise. We're now up to Valentine's, Halloween, the Summer Solstice, and Christmas-except-not-Christmas as holidays. Now, an episode featuring...Cheerilee? And Big McIntosh? Now, that does come as a surprise. I sure hope McIntosh's voice actor wasn't disgusted by this episode...

    Oh, well, would you look at that. With this episode, it occurs to me that the CMC are getting more skilled. Not only are they showing a greater degree of skill and artistic talent (Compare that giant heart to anything they built in "The Show Stoppers"), but their coordination has improved--you can see them working together to accomplish tasks such as harvesting the ingredients for Love Poison.
    Speaking of Love Poison, chalk that up as another event where desire-related magic has turned out to be very bad. Alongside the Want It, Need It spell...maybe people should stop going to Twilight for romantic advice.

    So many background stallions! Also, sort of surprised to hear them finally say that in the show. We now have a canon pairing for Caramel, and Doctor Whooves appears to be single--I wonder if this'll put a cap on Derpy/Doctor pairings for a while.

    A neat little thing I noticed--for those of you who have been paying attention for a long time, you'll have noticed this too. If you look at the book cover, you'll notice that the book Twilight was about to recommend to the CMC is the book that tells the Legend of Nightmare Moon. I don't think they meant anything by it, but interpret this as you will.

    "Don't meddle with love..." seems like a bit more of a mature moral to me. Gee, this episode was full of surprises.

    Slops
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    PsychoShy said:
    I wonder if this'll put a cap on Derpy/Doctor pairings for a while.

    I fear it won't. Shippers tend to be persistent in their ability to ignore details of the show in order to justify their preferred ships, so why would this little detail be different?

    The ambiguous end, with Big Mac and Cheerilee walking off together to have a proper date should also put an end to a lot of the shipping with Mac and other ponies, but I doubt it will.

    Werewolf
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    PsychoShy said:
    Oh, well, would you look at that. With this episode, it occurs to me that the CMC are getting more skilled. Not only are they showing a greater degree of skill and artistic talent (Compare that giant heart to anything they built in "The Show Stoppers"), but their coordination has improved--you can see them working together to accomplish tasks such as harvesting the ingredients for Love Poison.

    This is true. The CMC seem to be especially competent when they stop worrying about their cutie marks and just do stuff. Also, did anypony notice that none of the CMC said a word about cutie marks this episode?

    maybe people should stop going to Twilight for romantic advice.

    "Hmm, the CMC want to borrow a book that tells how to make a love potion on Hearts and Hooves Day . . . I don't see any possible way this could go wrong."

    Twilight appears to be going for the "absent-minded genius" role here.

    Doctor Whooves appears to be single--I wonder if this'll put a cap on Derpy/Doctor pairings for a while.

    He's too splashy. And no, no it won't. Check this out: http://www.equestriadaily.com/2012/02/episode-followup-hearts-and-hooves.html It's the 11th pic down, not sure where in the episode it's from.

    A neat little thing I noticed--for those of you who have been paying attention for a long time, you'll have noticed this too. If you look at the book cover, you'll notice that the book Twilight was about to recommend to the CMC is the book that tells the Legend of Nightmare Moon. I don't think they meant anything by it, but interpret this as you will.

    Yeah, that was a nice bit of continuity.

    A couple other things that I found interesting:

    • Big McIntosh: Yes, he really is that strong. Tie a house to him and you might slow him down a little. I wonder how much of that is Earth Pony Strength and how much is McIntosh: The Mightiest Stallion Alive.
    • Canon confirmation: Ponies die. And have funerals.

    Werewolf said:
    This is true. The CMC seem to be especially competent when they stop worrying about their cutie marks and just do stuff. Also, did anypony notice that none of the CMC said a word about cutie marks this episode?

    They didn't? I guess I was so used to hearing it that I didn't specifically look for it, but yeah, you're right.
    ...I'm not sure if this suggests an actual gaining of skills or if it's just the whole theme of that you'll find your Cutie Mark by not looking for it.

    And no, no it won't. Check this out: http://www.equestriadaily.com/2012/02/episode-followup-hearts-and-hooves.html It's the 11th pic down, not sure where in the episode it's from.

    Oh, yeah, that. I believe it comes from somewhere near the start of the episode, but I couldn't pin an event for some relative coordinates.
    Also, on the opposite side of that same picture, we have Lyra and Bon-Bon together. While this is the case for most brony things...THEY KNOW.

    • Big McIntosh: Yes, he really is that strong. Tie a house to him and you might slow him down a little. I wonder how much of that is Earth Pony Strength and how much is McIntosh: The Mightiest Stallion Alive.

    If it were any other stallion, I would've shrugged it off as nothing but the Rule of Funny. Big McIntosh, however...and I agree; I can't tell if it's just the natural earth pony thing, or years of plowing fields.
    Man, Berry Punch has terrible luck when it comes to houses.

    • Canon confirmation: Ponies die. And have funerals.

    And on the lighter side, video games.
    (To be honest, I had expected death to be a real thing this entire time...)

    Couple things I forgot to mention earlier:
    With the Heart's Desire potion and the Love Poison, Apple Bloom has gone brewing twice. While neither had particularly desirable effects, it seems Zecora is rubbing off on her more than I initially expected. Gotta wonder if they're going anywhere with this...

    And oh, man, take a closer look at that story about Love Poison...
    http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120212024412/mlp/images/c/c9/Historical_characters.png
    Love Poison was initially used on an earth pony prince...and an alicorn princess. Celestia and Luna are not the only alicorns, and although it doesn't have much context, this in itself is a very significant discovery.
    ...I can practically hear a thousand more alicorn FCs spreading their massive wings and taking to the skies.