News - Aug 14, 2017 (1 year ago)

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~Princess Luna

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Werewolf
Contributor
6 years ago
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PsychoShy said:
(To be honest, I had expected death to be a real thing this entire time...)

I did as well, but I still find it significant that death was canonically acknowledged. Remember, when Philomena "renewed herself," they never used the word "die" despite that fact that that's the whole point of the phoenix legend.

[sarcasm]'Cause little kids would be traumatized to know of the existence of death. Better to keep it a total secret until a pet or family member kicks off, so they'll have no frame of reference.[/sarcasm]

With the Heart's Desire potion and the Love Poison, Apple Bloom has gone brewing twice. While neither had particularly desirable effects, it seems Zecora is rubbing off on her more than I initially expected. Gotta wonder if they're going anywhere with this...

Interesting. Both times were successful, too, for a given value of success. Alchemist Applebloom? I could see that.

And oh, man, take a closer look at that story about Love Poison...
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120212024412/mlp/images/c/c9/Historical_characters.png
Love Poison was initially used on an earth pony prince...and an alicorn princess. Celestia and Luna are not the only alicorns, and although it doesn't have much context, this in itself is a very significant discovery.

. . .
Wow.
I completely missed that. Not only does this confirm more alicorns, but alicorns on an equal level (politically and romantically speaking) with earth ponies.

Slops
Contributor
6 years ago
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Werewolf said:
Wow.
I completely missed that. Not only does this confirm more alicorns, but alicorns on an equal level (politically and romantically speaking) with earth ponies.

Remind me, when does the episode talk about or even mention that they are supposed to be equal?
There's plenty of old tragic love stories between star crossed lovers who could not be together because one was of higher social stance than the other. How do you know this is not the case here? How do you know they are equals and one or the other isn't marrying bellow their status? Perhapes that's why the earth pony prince needed mindwarping magic to get the alicorn to agree to the marriage.
(Am I really the only one seeing the moral disconnect in the prince using a mindcontrolling potion to enter into a political marriage in the first place? It sounds like something the kind of scheme the bad guy in 80's Saturday morning cartoons might cook up...)
I mean if they where equals, he wouldn't have had to resort to thoughtcontrolling potions to get her to agree to the marriage would he? He could just have wooed her the traditional way.

And also keep in mind the whole thing is basically an ancient myth. I wouldn't take the myth on it's own as solid evidence for how the socio-political situation, moral and ethical norms of ancient Equestrian civilisation worked.

As for more Alicorns, that cat was out of the bag with Princess Candance.
http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/Princess_Cadence
And there was that one filly in the "magic kindgergarden", for those who paid attention, though most seem just assume that was an animators slip up...

Werewolf
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6 years ago
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Slops said:
Remind me, when does the episode talk about or even mention that they are supposed to be equal?

They are referred to as "this prince" and "this princess," and that is the sum total of what we know about them. You're welcome to assume earth ponies are the downtrodden scum commoner serfs of Equestria, but don't expect me to agree,

As for more Alicorns, that cat was out of the bag with Princess Candance.
http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/Princess_Cadence

Cadance hasn't appeared in the show yet, and all the information on her is in the form of rumors and leaks. We know virtually nothing for certain; it's way too soon to form any firm opinions on her.


Cadance hasn't appeared in the show yet, and all the information on her is in the form of rumors and leaks. We know virtually nothing for certain; it's way too soon to form any firm opinions on her.

^ this this this and a million times this. From what brief glimpses "Have" been leaked, its that the entire thing is a royal wedding spoof and will be a fairy tale book. Thus, a story, thus no confirmation.

Slops
Contributor
6 years ago
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Werewolf said:
They are referred to as "this prince" and "this princess," and that is the sum total of what we know about them. You're welcome to assume earth ponies are the downtrodden scum commoner serfs of Equestria, but don't expect me to agree,

So in other words, you are just guessing they are equals with nothing to back up the assertion?
But if they are equals, why does the prince need a lovepotion to force the princess to love him blindly enough that she would agree to anything to be with him?

And yes, we know nothing about Princess Cadance aside from her coat colour. But her presence does show that there are more alicorns around.

Werewolf
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6 years ago
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Slops said:
So in other words, you are just guessing they are equals with nothing to back up the assertion?

And you are just guessing that they're not, with nothing to back that up. All we know is that they were both of royal status.

And yes, we know nothing about Princess Cadance aside from her coat colour. But her presence does show that there are more alicorns around.

Unless it takes place in the distant past. Or is a play, or a story, or a dream. Or is Trixie disguised as an alicorn for some bizarre reason. Or some other thing that I haven't even thought of.

It's likely that Cadance proves the existence of other alicorns, but we literally know nothing about her yet. I don't consider rumors and blurbs off the toy box to prove much in terms of the TV show's canon; otherwise, Trixie's real name is Lulumoon.


Slops said:
But if they are equals, why does the prince need a lovepotion blah blah blah

Equality ≠ will fall in love. All it does is eliminate one potential obstacle. Maybe the princess was in love with somebody else. Maybe the princess was gay and didn't like boys. Maybe the prince was terribly insecure and shy, or had an embarrassing disfigurement, or a really annoying whiny voice that the princess couldn't stand. Or maybe the prince was just a total jerk. There are lots of reasons why the prince might have resorted to a love potion, once you stop to think.

Slops
Contributor
6 years ago
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Cocoa_Bean said:
There are lots of reasons why the prince might have resorted to a love potion, once you stop to think.

Of course. But it doesn't rule out the possibility of him using the potion to get himself a marriage based promotion.
And more to the point, I mentioned the possibility as part of pointing out how Werewolfs comment (that "Not only does this confirm more alicorns, but alicorns on an equal level (politically and romantically speaking) with earth ponies.") was a baseless assumption on his part and not the in canon confirmation of anything, as he presented it.
And most of the possibilities you mentioned still make the prince out to be a massive prick for magically forcing the princess into a life long relationship (or however long the magic works) that she wouldn't otherwise want to be in.
To put it into perspective. Imagine if Gannondorf did to Zelda what the prince did to the princess.

Werewolf
Contributor
6 years ago
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Slops said:
And more to the point, I mentioned the possibility as part of pointing out how Werewolfs comment (that "Not only does this confirm more alicorns, but alicorns on an equal level (politically and romantically speaking) with earth ponies.") was a baseless assumption on his part and not the in canon confirmation of anything, as he presented it.

Except that, based on all the available data, it is confirmation.

The earth pony is referred to as "this prince" and the alicorn as "this princess." This is all the information we have, and the specific personalities of the characters are irrelevant anyway.

"Prince" and "princess" are differently-gendered titles for the same rank. Therefore, this is canon confirmation of earth ponies and alicorns of the same socio-political level - specifically, the same rank of royalty.

Slops
Contributor
6 years ago
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Werewolf said:
Except that, based on all the available data, it is confirmation.

The earth pony is referred to as "this prince" and the alicorn as "this princess." This is all the information we have, and the specific personalities of the characters are irrelevant anyway.

"Prince" and "princess" are differently-gendered titles for the same rank. Therefore, this is canon confirmation of earth ponies and alicorns of the same socio-political level - specifically, the same rank of royalty.

And by that logic PRINCE Blueblood wields just as much power as Princess Celestia.
Clearly, this is not entirely true...

Werewolf
Contributor
6 years ago
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Slops said:
And by that logic PRINCE Blueblood wields just as much power as Princess Celestia.

They are of the same political rank, yes.

Clearly, this is not entirely true...

Oh? Prove it.
We know Blueblood doesn't raise or lower the sun, but as Hearth's Warming Eve showed, it's possible that he could (I admit this possibility is rather terrifying). That aside, what does Celestia do that Blueblood couldn't? Note that I said "couldn't," not "doesn't," since holding equal rank =/= doing equal work.


Werewolf said:
They are of the same political rank, yes.

Oh? Prove it.
We know Blueblood doesn't raise or lower the sun, but as Hearth's Warming Eve showed, it's possible that he could (I admit this possibility is rather terrifying). That aside, what does Celestia do that Blueblood couldn't? Note that I said "couldn't," not "doesn't," since holding equal rank =/= doing equal work.

At what "Exact" scene does he raise or lower the sun...

Werewolf
Contributor
6 years ago
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TerraFirma said:
At what "Exact" scene does he raise or lower the sun...

He doesn't. I'm referring to the episode "Heart's Warming Eve," where we learned that, in pre-Equestrian times, the earth ponies grew the food, the pegasi controlled the weather, and the unicorns . . . raised and lowered the sun and the moon.

Therefore, this is not an alicorn-exclusive job. Unicorns did it before Celestia and Luna came along.

Therefore, non-alicorn unicorns could do it again.

Therefore, Prince Blueblood, a unicorn, could theoretically raise the sun.


Werewolf said:
He doesn't. I'm referring to the episode "Heart's Warming Eve," where we learned that, in pre-Equestrian times, the earth ponies grew the food, the pegasi controlled the weather, and the unicorns . . . raised and lowered the sun and the moon.

Therefore, this is not an alicorn-exclusive job. Unicorns did it before Celestia and Luna came along.

Therefore, non-alicorn unicorns could do it again.

Therefore, Prince Blueblood, a unicorn, could theoretically raise the sun.

I dont recall them saying they rose the sun and moon, just that they had powerful magic..

Slops
Contributor
6 years ago
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TerraFirma said:
I dont recall them saying they rose the sun and moon, just that they had powerful magic..

It was mentioned in Hearth Warming Eve when they exposited on how roles of unicorns in ancient Equestria.

Also, the very first episodes mentions Celestia is the ruler of the country and Luna is also mentioned as a co ruler. Blueblood never has a single word mentioned about what he actually rules, if anything.
Personally I like to think he has some kind of government position, but there's nothing supporting that aside from his title.
His position does however seem to confirm that not all Princes and Princesses are equal in political clout.


...Ok this has gone on long enough, and this thread has derailed so far from its original intended purposes that its not even worth keeping open anymore. Thread over.


im unlocking this thread for the sake of all of you, PLEASE dont derail the thread like you guys did in the past, just discuss how good was the episode, how bad it was, and REFRAIN from getting into over detailed conversations regarding one topic in the episode and all of that stupid shit,

thank you and have a nice day~


Thanks, Derpy! It was getting a little too stiff, not being able to hear Slops' crackpot theories about Tyrant Celestia and Earth Pony Scum (No offense intended).

Now, I want you two to heed her warning. If you really want to heat up and have another silly debate with each other, please, take it to a PM or one of our now-two debate topics.
Werewolf and I have exchanged thoughts on the latest episodes via the PM system, so all that's left to do now is wait for everypony else to catch up.

Werewolf
Contributor
6 years ago
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Derpy_hooves said:
im unlocking this thread for the sake of all of you, PLEASE dont derail the thread like you guys did in the past

I promise to behave. Thank you for giving this thread a second chance.


this episode was a little too predictable, i mean i already knew that there was no disaster when i saw how twilight got her scar :/


I was amused that the result of Twilight messing with the past ... was to create the past she remembered.

Meaning, I think, that since she remembered meeting her future self, she was essentially destined to go back in time.


I'd be incredibly curious ... as would any physicist of any level ... if it would ever be possible to change the future as a result of direct involvement via time travel.

Slops
Contributor
6 years ago
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Derpy_hooves said:
this episode was a little too predictable, i mean i already knew that there was no disaster when i saw how twilight got her scar :/

The whole episode was playing around with the *Future Badass* cliche.
Darker and Edgier? Scars? Eye patch? New Haircut? Dressed like a punk'ish guerilla fighter?
It's all part of the cliche. It was really only the trenchcoat and a weapon she was missing.

And there was no way they could have gotten away with actually making a major disaster that would have left a main character crippled, even as an alternate universe. So I suppose they did what they could. At least it wasn't some disaster that was caused by their attempt to prevent it and they took care to insure the timeloop itself was closed.
Gotta wonder how that timeloop got started though...
Another thing this episode left me wondering was the why, if magic can manipulate time, couldn't Twilight use magic to predict the future?

Also, another D&D monster manual entry...

Werewolf
Contributor
6 years ago
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Slops said:
Another thing this episode left me wondering was the why, if magic can manipulate time, couldn't Twilight use magic to predict the future?

Could be that she could use time to reach the past, since it's already happened, but the future remains nebulous and unreachable.

Also, another D&D monster manual entry...

Really? I haven't seen Cerberus himself statted out . . . the closest I can think of are the two-headed death dogs.

Other things of note:

  • Pony Hell (Tartarus) is now canon.
  • Second sighting of Ponyville's hydroelectric dam.
  • Pinkie's gypsy magic is a thing (okay, she doesn't actually demonstrate any gypsy magic, but I can't be the only one who started humming "Watch as I work my gypsy magic / Seapony tears and provolone" when Madame Pinkie appeared).
  • I loved how Spike reminded Twi that they didn't have to sneak into the Canterlot library . . . she had a perfect right to be there. Even the unicorn guard knew that!
  • Also, unicorn guards. Now we just need to see some earth pony guards.

I enjoyed Solid Sparkle, and the night guard's armor. I'm still not sure though if Twilight realized that the disaster she was trying to prevent was her stressing herself out that much. It seemed like she was close to getting it, but was a little off.

But Panic Pie was the best part, with the balloons and whatnot.


Raiden_Gekkou said:
But Panic Pie was the best part, with the balloons and whatnot.

Oh Celestia that was hilarious


Also when Celestia just walked in and complimented her hair


Slops said:
something

don't go into a detailed discussion slops, thats the reason what got this thread locked in the first place

as for my favorite part: you gotta love how oblivious the night guards are~~~~~~~


AKmalamute said:
I'd be incredibly curious ... as would any physicist of any level ... if it would ever be possible to change the future as a result of direct involvement via time travel.

As I know it, there are essentially three types of time travel:
ONE: Things you do in the past directly affect the future, so be really careful. Seen in "Back to the Future."
TWO: You can go back to the past, but nothing in the future will change because of it. Seen in the Terminator movies, I believe.
THREE: The future is written in stone, but changing things in the past is not futile. Doing so creates an alternate timestream where X Event does/n't occur--of course, you'll still have to deal with it. Seen in Dragon Ball Z.
As for which works in real life...let's be sure time travel is physically possible first. I still think it'll never be possible.

Speaking of the whole time travel thing, I was really happy to see another mention of Starswirl the Bearded reference. And I'd been told he wasn't a very powerful mage...okay, so who wants to bet what the symbol above that door means?

A couple more city names, and Equestria is certainly being portrayed as a country more than a planet now. Though the thought of a "Las Pegasus" is...strange, at least it gives us more to work with.
And the concept of Tartarus and the quote-unquote "evil spirits" locked up inside it is very interesting. Maybe this is where Nightmare Moon is...?

Oh, yes, Doctor Whooves laughing at the concept of time travel.
You can't explain that.


PsychoShy said:
A lot

Also don't forget the whole matter thing, if we did unlock time travel and go somewhere, then matter would of been created in that time, which is physically impossible

Slops
Contributor
6 years ago
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PsychoShy said:okay, so who wants to bet what the symbol above that door means?

The Circle with a 4 pointed star? Don't suppose it was his cutiemark?

Also I'm pretty sure Twilight said "evil creatures" not "evil spirits".