News - Apr 16, 2014 (5 months ago)

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I saw Dash coming a long way away. A pony with little respect for rules, and a shadowy figure that Pinkie could only match in speed (Party of One, anypony?), was flying, and "mysteriously vanished." I knew it added up to a Pegasus, and Rainbow certainly fit the bill.
But Fluttershy? I was expecting Applejack, especially after the way she eyed the cake and nearly ate it in front of her at the beginning of the episode. Perhaps they're just dodging even further injury to Applejack's "Element of Honesty" thing, but I did not expect Fluttershy. Heck, when I first saw the pink strand, I thought Pinkie herself had done it.

Also surprised to see Pinkie not accuse Twilight.

Do all griffins appear so mean externally? Is it, like, in their genetics or something, or is each griffin clan trained to be a different kind of mean, or...what?
Speaking of the other races, it sort of ruined the effect to just have them crawl out of the woodwork at the Ponyville stop. I know that time is short, but the episode would have flowed a lot better if they each got on at a different stop.

This is sort of random, but I really liked the "Cakenstein" cobbled-up confection at the end of the episode. I guess it represents teamwork in some way, but...meh, I just really liked how it looked.


Boy oh boy, where to even start with this new episode..should we pick apart the lackluster and predictable plot? the throwaway and rather ugly villian? The general snorefest tone? The predictable celestia fuckup? so much to start with...

Werewolf
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2 years ago
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TerraFirma said:
Boy oh boy, where to even start with this new episode..should we pick apart the lackluster and predictable plot? the throwaway and rather ugly villian? The general snorefest tone? The predictable celestia fuckup? so much to start with...

I disagree almost completely. The only things I really disliked:

1) Cadence was an alicorn . . . why, exactly?
2) Celestia got pwned.


Werewolf said:
I disagree almost completely. The only things I really disliked:

1) Cadence was an alicorn . . . why, exactly?
2) Celestia got pwned.

Lets begin shall we.
1: The entire plot was completely predictable, up to the evil turn, the big reveal, even celestias smack down, nothing in it happened that wasn't predictable, and the entire thing felt more like a big fan-fic then an episode written by lauren faust.

2: {Changling} Candance acts like a Bitch. and NO one notices or says anything except for twilight? Then when twilight "Tries" To tell her best friends, and even her mentor, everyone whos know her for years turns on her, even her friends, who had no idea who candance even was?

3: We were all but promised discord, huh, guess who never remotely showed up? Well so much for that big hope.

4: The songs were mostly bleh, and just felt lack luster compared to the Gala, the villian felt lackluster compared to nightmare moon, and didn't even touch on the sheer awesomeness that was Q, I mean discord.

5: Their was absolutely no build up for this, beyond the main cast and celestia, I couldn't have cared less if White knight, or shining armor, or whatever his name was, exploded in mid sentence. I didn't care about him, or candance, or whatever these "Fae" things are.

Slops
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2 years ago
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Cadance is an alicorn, seems kind of a given she'd be a mary sue and any episodes focusing on her seeming like a fanfic is a given...

I liiked the changeling though. Had a lot in common with those undead blank flanks from that one game. But she was sufficiently hammy that she was entertaining...

Shining Armor should have been introduced earlier in the season if they wanted to get the "used to be close with Twilight" thing better across. As he was, he just came out of nowhere, did little of significance and disappeared again.

The songs where ok, usually not something I pay much heed to anyhow. Nothing to take the place of my current favourites (Winter Wrap Up and the cider song).

If I had to sum it up I would really have to say the problem seems to be that the whole episode was more of a media stunt than a proper episode. It felt more like a direct to DVD tie in than a proper part of the series.

PS: Faust is only credited as writer for the 2 opening episodes for season 1 if my memory serves....


Slops said:
Cadance is an alicorn, seems kind of a given she'd be a mary sue and any episodes focusing on her seeming like a fanfic is a given...

I liiked the changeling though. Had a lot in common with those undead blank flanks from that one game. But she was sufficiently hammy that she was entertaining...

Shining Armor should have been introduced earlier in the season if they wanted to get the "used to be close with Twilight" thing better across. As he was, he just came out of nowhere, did little of significance and disappeared again.

The songs where ok, usually not something I pay much heed to anyhow. Nothing to take the place of my current favourites (Winter Wrap Up and the cider song).

If I had to sum it up I would really have to say the problem seems to be that the whole episode was more of a media stunt than a proper episode. It felt more like a direct to DVD tie in than a proper part of the series.

PS: Faust is only credited as writer for the 2 opening episodes for season 1 if my memory serves....

Faust stated on her own DA that she wrote this episode, and originally wrote candance as a pegasi.

Slops
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2 years ago
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TerraFirma said:
Faust stated on her own DA that she wrote this episode, and originally wrote candance as a pegasi.

Ah. My assumption stands corrected.
We still don't have a lot of examples of "Faust written episodes" for reference though...


Am I the only one that was actually kind of happy to see the Mane Six get defeated just this once?

I loved Shining Armor, in either case. His voice made me fucking melt.

And Queen Chrysalis... Well, fuck, she was... Interesting. Am I the only one who thinks that the Changelings are the descendants of the very selfsame greedy jewelmonger ponies that Queen Chrysalis told Twilight about?


Sungazer said:
Am I the only one that was actually kind of happy to see the Mane Six get defeated just this once?

I loved Shining Armor, in either case. His voice made me fucking melt.

And Queen Chrysalis... Well, fuck, she was... Interesting. Am I the only one who thinks that the Changelings are the descendants of the very selfsame greedy jewelmonger ponies that Queen Chrysalis told Twilight about?

We're not calling her queen Chrysalis, shes just the Changeling Queen here.

Slops
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2 years ago
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TerraFirma said:
We're not calling her queen Chrysalis, shes just the Changeling Queen here.

That name isn't mentioned in the episode, but according to a layout artist, that's the name used in the script.
*source*

Also one awesome thing about this episode was the amount of "getting crap past the radar" it contained.

It had a major brawl. No holds bared, the main characters beating the crap out of eachother (or rather their evil copies). No "instant-problem-away" spell to solve the situation, just good old fashioned violence.
And Pinkie using Twilight as a machinegun...

The changelings are basically succubi. Their queen replaced a mare for the purpose of seducing her victims boyfriend so she could suck away his life force...
I'll just leave the specifics of the love/life/magic/soul stealing process to your dirty, dirty imaginations....

The joke about a bachelor party.

Twilight being surrounded by a ring of fire and sucked into the floor in a scene that almost made it look like she was being dragged to hell/burned alive.
By itself not an unknown concept, but in execution, far darker than anything I'd expect from a show for 5 year old girls...

Not exactly the kind of subjects and allusions I would expect to come up in a show for little girls.


DID YOU GUYS SEE IT? BECAUSE I SURE DID.
VINYL TOOK OFF HER GLASSES.
And, as far as I could tell, her eyes were purple-colored.

So am I the only one who really liked the flashbacks? Although they weren't nearly enough to connect to Shining "Plot Device to the Royal Wedding" Armor, I felt a little better about Cadence. And, apparently, alicorns age (Indicated by Cadence's young form)--and I don't care about you guys, but that's great news for my fan-fic.

Though I will say that they dropped a hint in a way that wasn't very subtle at all. Stupid me came here (Not to this forum, but to 20%C in general) before watching, and as soon as "Cadence" didn't greet Twilight with a smile and a big hug, I knew she was the Changeling Queen.

Speaking of the Changelings, chalk that up as another original monster from MLP. Despite her very throw-away feel, it's worth noting that the Queen was never defeated or destroyed, only sent away. Though it's a bit of a hike back, she was never imprisoned or implied to be obliterated like Discord or Nightmare Moon were. My gut tells me she'll be back. And whose love will she feed off of? Well, other than Armor and Cadence, there's always the Mane Cast. Notice how photos were taken of Rainbow and Rarity, each with their own specific stallion? I'm not the brightest at this, but I think I smell shipping at work.
One thing I don't get about the Changelings, though--do they feed off of love, or their "lover's" power? Because I thought one of them said she fed on love, but then when Shining Armor came back to his senses, he was too weak to do anything.
I really don't agree with her defeating Celestia, and in one blow too. And, of all people, our plot devices defeat her? I understand that the theme of this was that love conquers all, and there's always the old excuse that Celestia didn't want to hurt her subjects, but really? After they managed to get so close, the Mane Case just gave up because "there were too many Mooks?" Weak.
If nothing else, I wish the fight against Celestia had been a little longer, so they could at least have the excuse of her being tired out. Actually, I wish the whole thing was longer in general--maybe this should've been a movie, instead of Season 2's finale.

"My Big Brother Best Friend Forever" wasn't bad, but I felt like it was too short for me to thoroughly enjoy it. Normally, I like it when villains sing, but "My Perfect Day" felt incredibly bland. I guess the best way to explain it is the Changeling Queen didn't exploit her awesome voice to its full potential. I have to say I prefer Flim and Flam when it comes to villain songs so far. "Love is in Bloom" was above decent, but unfortunately, the dumb credits cut me off before I could enjoy it.

A FEW FOOTNOTES FOR YOU:
> ...So...Lyra was watching the wedding...and Lyra was also one of the bridesmaids fighting Cadence and Twilight. Did I miss something important here?
> Awesome, Luna, you came in at just the right time. Also, she's shorter than Celestia--good to finally know for sure.
> If you read the episode description, you saw that it said "Celestia's Niece." This either means that Luna is a happy wife and mother, or that Celestia has another sibling she's not telling us about. The Royal Family is growing--Deal with it, Terra.
> Sooooo...no Discord. And no Trixie, either, not even in the crowd. Well, here's hoping for Season 3.


PsychoShy said:
"Celestia's Niece." This either means that Luna is a happy wife and mother, or that Celestia has another sibling she's not telling us about. The Royal Family is growing--Deal with it, Terra.

Promptly go shove a holy hand grenade up thine moon. Also, I love that you simply "assume" that it has to be blood relations, and not just a formal title or adoption. Yup, can't "POSSIBLY" be one of those can it. Not at all.


PsychoShy said:
And no Trixie, either, not even in the crowd

ACTUALLY, she DID appear in the crowd

Werewolf
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2 years ago
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Blah . . . I can't quote-and-reply; I'll be here for hours.

  • Yes, the story was somewhat predictable. Lots of episodes have been. It didn't make it less good, IMO.
  • Yes, SA and Cadence could have been developed more, but I felt they did okay given then time constraints of the episode.
  • The changelings were awesomely creepy, and Psycho is right to point out that they're still out there. Queen Chrysalis was physically flung away. and that's it.
  • The songs were good, but short.

Beyond that, I'll just say that I agree with Slops and PsychoShy.


Oh God.

You ponies.

I just found out.

Shining Armor shares a VA with the guy who voiced the english dub version of Dilandau, from Escaflowne.


TerraFirma said:
Promptly go shove a holy hand grenade up thine moon.

Now that's where you first go wrong. Implying that it would even fit--or that, as a darkness-type creature, I would bother to carry one.

Also, I love that you simply "assume" that it has to be blood relations, and not just a formal title or adoption. Yup, can't "POSSIBLY" be one of those can it. Not at all.

Who uses "niece" as an honorary title? Besides, that doesn't help your argument at all--the situation is exactly as you left it. Cadence is still a Princess, she still has parents, we still don't know who they are, and given the amount of canon available at this time, they could still be alicorns.

Derpy_hooves said:
ACTUALLY, she DID appear in the crowd

Wait, where?! I completely missed her!


PsychoShy said:
Wait, where?! I completely missed her!

So did I!

Also... LYRA FINALLY SPOKE!


Welcome back to a long-needed New Episode Discussion. Hopefully, you all believe that Season Three was worth the wait. Well...jeez, where to start?

Okay, first off...King Sombra (King Somber? I hope y'all are ready for the next Cadence/Cadance...) was a pretty weak villain. He barely spoke, and when he did, he sounded like a mindless brute. Unlike Chrysalis or NMM, there was literally no reason for him to be a villain--which can be played off well (see Discord), but it wasn't. I expected a cool, suave mastermind, and I got a dumb, slow beast. True shame.
At least his powers were cool. Seriously, though, Celestia...why would you turn a Shadow Lord into shadows? Shadows are ridiculously strong anyway.
Maybe we'll see more of him. I seem to recall being told that this season would have more of a "sub-linear" feel to it, and his death was rather anticlimactic and didn't make it feel like he died...I dunno. But for now, he takes fourth place on the villainy chart, beneath Chrysalis.

Well, we've got a new plethora of magic! To count them, we've got gravity shifts, magic jammers, and--oh, glorious day--our first use of true Dark Magic. Love the aesthetic difference, by the way. I love the way Sombra's "Fear Door" was played up, with the lock opened by Dark Magic...at first, I thought Twilight had failed because she had allowed herself to think Dark Magic would solve all her problems.

It brings me great joy to see Twilight not standing alone in the spotlight. I can't believe it didn't even occur to me until the very end that Spike had been taken along on one of the Mane Cast's "Save-the-World" adventures. I also was not expecting him to be that important (Read: at all).
...I sure hope this isn't leading up to what I think it will, but I am interested to see Twilight's "Next Level of Study." Maybe it will aid her in the Magic Duel coming up later this season? I'll definitely be looking forward to that episode.

...Well, that's all I've got to say. Let's raise our cider glasses to another season! Cheers!

Slops
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1 year ago
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I have to agree with PsychoShy's opinion of King Sombra. Nothing like the past villains, who would either be funny and charming, an over the top hammy and scenery chewing "dark lord" or sympathetic and devious succubus. But Sombra just kind of lingers around and never really does anything after his first appearance. You could take him out of every scene he's in and just have him mentioned and otherwise remain an unseen threat, and the story would still make sense.
That you can take the bad guy out of a story and still have it make sense with only minimal adjustments, is not exactly a hallmark of a good villain.

And then there's the crystal ponies. Where even one of them even named? The whole thing just seemed like a toytastic excuse to make a new line of toys dictated by the marketing department, rather than a story the writers and artists really wanted to say or had any real ideas what to do with. In short, the whole thing smells like executive meddling to me.

There where a few highpoints though.
Jousting. Medieval equestrian bloodsports are now canon...
Dark Magic is canon and Celestia both wields and (apparently) teaches it.

Werewolf
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1 year ago
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Sombra was rather disappointing, but I approve mightily of his design. Very cool appearance.

Yes! Spike rocks! Go Spike!

The Fear Door was very well done. A very subtle trap, which Twi would likely have never figured out on her own.

Dark Magic is canon. Wow. This is very interesting. I wonder if Twi will get in trouble learning to wield the Magic of Hatred?

More Shining Armor and Cadance is good. I would have liked to see more character development, but at least we got to see Shiny acting all badass, and Cadance doing something useful.

Overall, not the best, but I really enjoyed these episodes. Lots of interesting details, and some very interesting groundwork/hints for Season 3.

PsychoShy said:
...I sure hope this isn't leading up to what I think it will

It totally is, and you know it. Check out the visuals at the 5:15 mark, with Celestia and Luna, and then Twilight.


Honestly, I liked King Sombra. It makes sense he became the way he was - after a long period of imprisonment and a literal change in biology, he'd probably long since lost most of his personality and individuality, only dimly recognizing the icons of his former rule. He had become less a villain and more an elemental cataclysmic force of nature. If anything I'm only disappointed we didn't get to know more about what he was like when he was still (marginally) sane and intelligent.

It was awesome and a little creepy to see our first use of Dark Magic. Moreso that the first one to use it was Celestia herself, but it makes a lot of sense in a grim sort of way - can't fight what you don't understand, and all.

And Slops, Celestia didn't TEACH Twilight any dark magic. Twilight picked up on it very quickly, though. Which, given her experience with Discord, unnerves me a little, admittedly.

Also, seeing PLENTY of signs that Twilight will become a Princess. Note that Twilight DELEGATED - something that Celestia has been doing with Twilight in all the seasons before this.

And on a personal note, Shining Armor is officially Scottish.

WIFE TOSS.

Slops
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1 year ago
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Sungazer said:
And Slops, Celestia didn't TEACH Twilight any dark magic. Twilight picked up on it very quickly, though. Which, given her experience with Discord, unnerves me a little, admittedly.

She gave twilight a sufficiently detailed example that twilight could reproduce it with under 10 seconds of practice and then put twilight in a situation where she would have to use it.
That seems to follow the plato's method of teaching, much like how Celestia has been teaching Twilight about friendship by making twilight figure it all out on her own and send her lessons back to the princess.

Basically the idea is to give the student the bare minimum of resources and knowledge needed to solve a problem, then getting the student to figure out how to solve the problem on their own with minimal guidance.

Consider that if Celestia really didn't want a student as fast learning as Twilight to learn dark magic, would she have given her a demonstration good enough for Twilight to reproduce it?


Slops said:
She gave twilight a sufficiently detailed example that twilight could reproduce it with under 10 seconds of practice and then put twilight in a situation where she would have to use it.
That seems to follow the plato's method of teaching, much like how Celestia has been teaching Twilight about friendship by making twilight figure it all out on her own and send her lessons back to the princess.

Basically the idea is to give the student the bare minimum of resources and knowledge needed to solve a problem, then getting the student to figure out how to solve the problem on their own with minimal guidance.

Consider that if Celestia really didn't want a student as fast learning as Twilight to learn dark magic, would she have given her a demonstration good enough for Twilight to reproduce it?

I don't think Celestia would have any direct way of knowing Twilight would need to know dark magic, though, considering the Crystal Empire disappeared with Sombra.

My point was more that Twilight learned it on her own rather than being directly taught.

Which, again, is also a little disturbing considering what it implies about her experiences. She has a pretty thorough understanding of 'darkness' by now, especially after Discord temporarily broke her.


AWW SHIT, DISSCUSSION TIME!!!

{clears throat} well now that we have seen the first ... err well first and second new episodes of the new season, I must say that is was well less than expected.

I mean my goodness, there was almost no intrest, no plot and no story. first off, it felt way too rushed, we only got a villan name, but no villan!
we saw plenty of new ponies but not a single name was given.

long story short; it sucked!
no doubt some-one else thinks this.

... meh.

Werewolf
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1 year ago
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Sungazer said:
It makes sense he became the way he was - after a long period of imprisonment and a literal change in biology, he'd probably long since lost most of his personality and individuality, only dimly recognizing the icons of his former rule. He had become less a villain and more an elemental cataclysmic force of nature.

I hadn't considered this possibility, and I have to say, I like it. Based on what little we saw of him - specifically, his armor - he looks like he was once a warlord, and possibly a very . . . hm . . . physical ruler, if that makes any sense (as opposed to the more distant rule of NMM or Discord). A warrior-tyrant. If this is the case, being trapped in an immortal, non-corporeal state must have been absolute hell for him.

And note how he started as a cloud with eyes, then developed a head, then eventually regained his physical form. It's pretty clear he was trying to achieve this on purpose.

Note that Twilight DELEGATED - something that Celestia has been doing with Twilight in all the seasons before this.

. . . You are absolutely right. Wow.

I love how subtle this show is.

And on a personal note, Shining Armor is officially Scottish.

WIFE TOSS.

He clearly sees his wife as an object (specifically, a javelin).

Slops said:
<words>

You make a very compelling case. Interesting.

I wonder if Twi's knowledge of the Dark Arts will come up again.

Slops
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1 year ago
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Werewolf said:
I love how subtle this show is.

If you like subtlety, take a close look at what Cadences cutiemark is, now compare it to what she was doing in this episode....

I suspect both the blatantly appraising look Luna gave twilight right after celestia had told twilly about "the next level of study" in the first episode and the book she teleported to herself right at the end of the second episode are both foreshadowing too. The book covered in stars and swirls...

Werewolf
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1 year ago
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Slops said:
If you like subtlety, take a close look at what Cadences cutiemark is, now compare it to what she was doing in this episode....

Mind = blown.

I suspect both the blatantly appraising look Luna gave twilight right after celestia had told twilly about "the next level of study" in the first episode and the book she teleported to herself right at the end of the second episode are both foreshadowing too. The book covered in stars and swirls...

How about the scene at about 5:15, when the Royal Sisters regard Twilight? Speaking of heavy foreshadowing.


Slops said:
If you like subtlety, take a close look at what Cadences cutiemark is, now compare it to what she was doing in this episode....

I can't believe you didn't spot and/or mention what a certain blue crystal pony colt said.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t1-rciaGno

37:00 to 37:10

Celestia summoned Cadance the instant she heard the Crystal Empire had returned, Cadance could easily be over a thousand years old, and the Crystal Empire had a ruler before Sombra. I don't recall anyone ever said the former ruler was dead. If Cadance was out of the Empire at the time Sombra's curse vanished it, she wouldn't have vanished along with it. So she cooled her heels with Celestia and Luna, who are family, fellow rulers, and the vanquishers of Sombra. Waiting for her people and empire to return.

Plus, as Slops pointed out, her cutie mark is a dead ringer for the Crystal Heart.

Hmmm...

Werewolf
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1 year ago
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internetcatchphrase said:
If Cadance was out of the Empire at the time Sombra's curse vanished it, she wouldn't have vanished along with it.

Except that we've seen Cadance in flashback format, when she was foalsitting Filly Twilight, and she was noticeably younger. Unless crystal alicorns take millenia to mature, this suggests that she ages normally.

Of course, she could still be descended from the rulers of the Crystal Empire, and aging normally to adulthood doesn't preclude her from being ageless once she's mature . . .


also i don't know why no one but me as said anything about it yet. what is up with luna and twilight?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t1-rciaGno

2:12 to 2:35 luna is not really talking down about twilight but there was one sentence that NEEDS to be highlighted "go will know she is that much closer to being ready..." ready for what? then the follow up "trust me little sister" and the look luna and twilight gave each other.

4:55 to 5:05 the talk that ends with the stern look from luna. ever after this part luna is giving this bad look to her.

and lastly 40:55 to 41:00 luna pop out a book. what is the book for? and why did they only show just that small part?

#1 luna maybe about to take over twilight training. maybe start teaching her about dark magic. (as it was used in this ep)

#2 something is about to happen to luna (nightmare moon? turn rogue?) she seems to be questioning twilight's power. maybe they are hoping she will be able to cure luna from having another NMM. or something more?

or maybe something more or less. in all luna is demanding more out of twilight. and has doubts about her. I want to say the book she pop out IS dark magic and they are trying to fill her full of joy and happiness before giving her the book/training as a in-pure heart would turn evil........ maybe this is where the villains have been coming from....... maybe they are Tia former students :O