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Werewolf
Contributor
2 years ago
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Discussion: the Elements of Harmony

In category: Official Discussion

In a recent discussion between Slops and myself, the Elements of Harmony were referenced several times and referred to as a "super-weapon." This got me thinking, and I thought it would be good to have an actual discussion in the forum (weird, I know). So, this is for any and all chatter about the EoH.

  • What we know from the show:
  • There are six Elements:
    • Honesty
    • Loyalty
    • Kindness
    • Laughter
    • Generosity
    • Magic (which is "secret")

    We know the Elements have been used four times: twice on-screen and twice off. These were, in chronological order:

    • By Celestia and Luna, to defeat Discord;
    • By Celestia, to defeat Nightmare Moon;
    • By the Mane Six, to redeem Nightmare Moon; and
    • By the Mane Six again, to defeat Discord.

    A few other factoids:

    • When Celestia used the EoH against Luna/NMM, they ceased to work for her because it was her friendship with Luna that empowered them.
    • NMM successfully shattered the physical vessels of (five of) the EoH. This made no difference, as the EoH reconstituted themselves into five necklaces and a tiara once Twilight realized that her friends embodied them. This suggests that there is a more-than-physical component to the EoH.

    Some things I want to discuss:

    • We know that Celestia and Luna once co-wielded the EoH, yet there are six Elements and only two divine sisters. Were there four other Element-wielders who have vanished from history? Or did each of the sisters wield/embody multiple elements? If so, who embodied what?
    • They've been referred to (by fans) as "weapons," but the EoH have never successfully killed anyone. Partly this is no doubt due to the nature of MLP:FiM, but I find it questionable whether anything empowered by friendship would be the best instrument of death.
    • Each time the EoH have been used on-screen, it has been Twilight, the Element of Magic, who seemed to direct them (she wears the "big crown thingy," and the Rainbow of Light originates from her). Can the other wielders affect this? Could, say, the Element of Honesty direct this power if the Element of Magic was unwilling or unable? Incidentally, this provides circumstantial evidence that Celestia embodied the Element of Magic during her term as co-wielder.

    Thoughts? Opinions? Argument? What does everypony think?


    Werewolf, boy, you're doing that thing again where you ask questions nopony can possibly know the answer to.

    Either way, I do have some things to bring to the table.
    - I am led to believe that any one pony may wield more than one Element; though it may just be the "Rule of Godly Alicorns" speaking. The main evidence towards this is that Celestia was able to use them alone. If I am wrong, there's no evidence against me at this time--no other alicorns have been sighted on the show.
    - The Elements really are weapons. You might have just been able to pass them off as naught but something that drains an evil subject of their power (To me, it's not really a weapon if you can't use it against everyone). But then they used it for the second time--petrifying Discord a second time. This leads me to believe that the Elements have way more than just one use, and very well could be a deadly weapon.
    Also, arguably, being petrified--just standing there, eternally frozen in one position, able to see all but do nothing--is a fate much worse than death.
    - I would probably say "no" to this theory. I say this based on naught but the fact that everything in the show comes to rest on Twilight's shoulders (Have I mentioned how much I hate that recently?).
    > Nightmare Moon has returned to Equestria? We're all doomed unless Twilight can find some friends.
    > Ursa Minor attacks town? Let's all get out of the way and let Twilight deal with it.
    > Discord has been freed and is attempting to bring about eternal chaos? Send Twilight and company after him!

    Also, I have something interesting to bring to the table.
    In every form of media where there's an ancient, mythical object, someone has to have created it; they were never just there. The Chaos Emeralds were created by the ancient Echidnae Clan; the Triforce was placed in the Sacred Realm by the three goddesses of Hyrule; the Dragon Balls need a powerful Namekian watching them to even keep them in existence--I'm sure you get the point. Which raises the question--who created the Elements of Harmony? From the way the story is told, it doesn't seem likely that Celestia and Luna did.


    I'll keep this very short and very sweet.
    Could any random ponies who represented these elements use them? Surely there's more than one loyal friend out there, and more than one honest one for examples.

    Werewolf
    Contributor
    2 years ago
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    PsychoShy said:
    Werewolf, boy, you're doing that thing again where you ask questions nopony can possibly know the answer to.

    I know. It's great, ain't it?

    - The Elements really are weapons. You might have just been able to pass them off as naught but something that drains an evil subject of their power (To me, it's not really a weapon if you can't use it against everyone). But then they used it for the second time--petrifying Discord a second time. This leads me to believe that the Elements have way more than just one use, and very well could be a deadly weapon.

    Ah, but I have a theory on that!

    Discord, no matter what you think of him, was the Spirit of Disharmony. He was essentially an avatar of Chaos.

    What's solid, durable, eternal, and pretty much the opposite of Chaos? Stone. I think the EoH turned Discord to stone because that was pretty much the only way he could be stopped or contained, short of killing him.

    - I would probably say "no" to this theory. I say this based on naught but the fact that everything in the show comes to rest on Twilight's shoulders (Have I mentioned how much I hate that recently?).
    > Nightmare Moon has returned to Equestria? We're all doomed unless Twilight can find some friends.

    I think this was part of a long-term plan of Celestia's and arguably the reason she adopted Twilight as her protege in the first place.

    > Ursa Minor attacks town? Let's all get out of the way and let Twilight deal with it.

    In fairness, that happened very quickly. Also, what were the others going to do to the Ursa? Kick its toes?

    > Discord has been freed and is attempting to bring about eternal chaos? Send Twilight and company after him!

    Because they were the wielders of (and, it's implied, bonded with) the EoH, the only things that could stop Discord last time. Even Celestia and Luna together were no match for him.

    Still, I get what you're saying.

    In every form of media where there's an ancient, mythical object, someone has to have created it; they were never just there. <snip> Which raises the question--who created the Elements of Harmony? From the way the story is told, it doesn't seem likely that Celestia and Luna did.

    That . . . is a darn good question.

    The_Rookie said:
    I'll keep this very short and very sweet.
    Could any random ponies who represented these elements use them? Surely there's more than one loyal friend out there, and more than one honest one for examples.

    I don't think so. Remember, Twilight's not just a unicorn - her special talent is magic. When she gives NMM her Take That speech, she refers to each pony as "represent[ing] the spirit of . . [Element]!" This implies to me that, say, merely being truthful is not sufficient to wield the Element of Honesty; one must embody the very spirit of that concept.


    Remember, though - friendship is magic. I don't think you need to be magically powerful or even be a Unicorn or other magic-using species to use the Element of Magic, as long as you can bring others together and come to value them the way that Twilight did. Magic being her special talent was just a plus.